In baseball ... what is the rule for a "tagged up" out and a runner going home ?

situation:


runners on 1st and 3rd. there is 1 out.





play:


pop fly to second baseman ... catches and makes out.


1st base runner fails to tag up at first base ... and is tagged


out on the way to 2nd base.





under what circumstances does runner at 3rd to home score ?


is this runner always out under this circumstance ?





thanks !!!

In baseball ... what is the rule for a "tagged up" out and a runner going home ?
If it is not a "force out", and the runner is tagged out as the 3rd out of the inning, the runner going home counts if he crosses home plate before the runner was tagged.
Reply:For the folks who are claiming that the run would not score...





A failure to tag up after a fly out is NOT a force play! A force play is ONLY when a runner is forced to advance because another runner has rights to the base. Therefore the run would score, as long as the runner crossed the plate prior to the third out.





See rule 4.09, the last "approved ruling" paragraph:


http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/off...
Reply:The runner from first is out; he was tagged while off the base. That's the third out.





The runner from third may, after retouching third after the ball is touched by the second baseman, advance at his own risk. If he touches home without being tagged BEFORE the runner from first is tagged out, he scores. This is called a "timing play." The run would not count if he crossed AFTER the third out.





If the runner from third fails to retouch third, he may be called out on appeal if he or the base is tagged and the player with the ball calls the umpire's attention to the baserunning error. This would be an "advantageous fourth out", and his run would not count regardless of when he crossed the plate.
Reply:If the runner at 3rd tagged up and crossed home plate before the runner from first is tagged out, then I believe the run counts.





But I can't imagine that could ever happen. Any runner that takes off on a pop fly to the second baseman would be sent to the minors.
Reply:The runner on third would score if he tags up properly, and he touches the plate before the other runner is tagged.
Reply:If the runner on first is tagged out on his way to second he is out all the time, whether he tagged up or not. If he did not tag up, all the feilding team has to do is touch first and he is out. This can be apealed until the next pitch is thrown.





The runner at third must also tag up, after that, however he may try and score if he wants to. If it is only a pop up to second, he may not want to try. Although if the runner going to second can keep the fielders attention, AKA get into a rundown, then the man from third has a chance to score.








For anyone who might recommend the infield fly rule would be in play, that is only in play with runners on first and second, or bases loaded. This would not envoke the infield fly rule.
Reply:I will argue you are all wrong.





The only way the run counts, is if the guy on first, gets tagged out after the player on third crosses the plate, and the ball has left the hand of the person who caught the pop up.





It would count under this situation...





the pop is caught... the runner on third tags up and gets home before the runner on first is tagged out by someone other than the original player who caught the ball ( once the original player has thrown the ball to someone else the run counts - even if original player gets ball back)





Under that situation, the runner on third could score.








Just like if this was a batted grounder to second that is turned into a 4-6-3 double play. The runner on third would not score even if he crosses the plate before the throw to first.





The defense is afford the right to make the next force play. The throw from ss to first base is a force and a continuation of one play.





A baserunner getting into a run down in between bases is a "timed play" - because defenders are passing the ball to each other to make a non-forced out.





If with 1st and 3rd occupied and one out. If the offense pulls a hit and run, and the second basemen catches a pop out, and throws the ball back to first the inning is over. Even if the runner on 3rd crosses the plate, before the ball is caught to pick off the first base runner. Because, getting back to first is a force out on the pop fly.
Reply:The critical element here is the runner at first failing to tag up. That failure creates the force play which would disallow any score by the runner from third. With the runner from first being tagged, the defensive manager would need to be alert to the ruling from the umpire. If the umpire indicates that the run scores, an appeal would need to be made before the next pitch.